So I recently posted a couple of comments on gnrhead's video about a debate cross examination session that James White of Alpha and Omega ministries and Robert Sungensis a Roman Catholic apologist had on the topic of the Mass. At the end of gnrhead's video he claimed that the Church fathers were 'unanimous' on transubstantiation and challenged anyone to prove that they were not. Well, Moses Flores made a video response that gnrhead did not post or reply to and another gentleman posted some quotes from Pope Gelasius and Augustine. I then quoted Marcarius and Theodoret and gnrhead responded with his usual dismissal and ad hominem attacks against the other gentleman and claimed that he had not seen my quotes and he denied knowing of any video response posted by Moses. He then said:
Why don't you make a video response to my videos instead of running your mouth. Try the Papacy video.
Interestingly enough that is exactly the video I wrote my BLOG response to. I tried to inform him of this by posting responses to the video on YouTube but for whatever reason they would not post. I then tried again to post the link for it on this video (as well as the link for Moses' response) but it would not work. So finally I decided to email gnrhead and send him the links.
I will now reproduce our email dialogue…
Nick:
For some reason my responses are not being posted but here is what I said:
The response to your video from Prchdaword is available here: http://youtube.com/watch?v=XVuesQBEnHw No video responses from me due to the lack of a camera but I have dealt with your papacy video on my BLOG and for some reason my informing you of it didn't post either. Here is the address for that: http://rightly-dividing.blogspot.com/2007/04/papacy-defended.html
I'm all for debate, but if you're going to respond to me as you have done to others in your videos then don't bother. If you actually feel like supporting your assertions rather than name calling then I'm all for it.
Gnrhead:
I mispronounce it? In case you are not aware, I did not MISPRONOUNCE anything. I suggest you either learn Greek or be quiet. I will read the rest you wrote later on your blog only saw a bit of it..gotta go now. Will respond in a few hours
Nick:
Yes, you mispronounced it. But you have obviously fallen into the Strong's Greek Dictionary/Concordance trap (or perhaps some other lexicon, but I doubt it) that so many before you have. But even according to Strong's pronunciation scheme you got it wrong. The correct pronunciation is POY (rhymes with boy) - MY (as in oh MY God) - NO (as is NO you did not say it correctly). But again, you chose to mispronounce the lexical form of the word (i.e. the first person, present indicative; which is another problem that comes with relying on lexicons, they only give the lexical form) rather than the conjugated form of the verb 'poimaine' (POY-MY-neh; which is a second person, present indicative). The 'oi' and 'ai' are diphthongs, the 'oi' is pronounced as it is in the word 'oil' and the 'ai' is pronounced as it is in the word 'aisle'. This is basic stuff, so please learn it before capitalizing that you 'did not MISPRONOUNCE' anything and suggesting that I learn Greek.
Gnrhead:
And as far as pronouncing it..I just found 4 different scholars..listened to 8 clips of how others pronounce it and have heard YOUR variant of it as well as MY variant of it as well as several others. I guess we'll consult with the Early Greek Fathers to see which one of us is correct. I would love the references to all 4 scholars and 8 clips. And as far as I know, none of the early Greek fathers recorded their pronunciation for us to listen to, so at best we can read what they wrote and if we are going to follow the rules of Greek grammar then the diphthongs are going to be pronounced like they are in every other word that they appear in. But those references would be appreciated.
Nick:
I would love the references to all 4 scholars and 8 clips. And as far as I know, none of the early Greek fathers recorded their pronunciation for us to listen to, so at best we can read what they wrote and if we are going to follow the rules of Greek grammar then the diphthongs are going to be pronounced like they are in every other word that they appear in. But those references would be appreciated.
Gnrhead:
Sorry I didn't bookmark them..and I was joking about listening to the Greek Fathers pronunciations. As far as the correct pronunciation, I have heard many and many different variances on several different Greek words there is no SET list of orthodox way of pronouncing many given words in case you didn't know. But..even though I failed to bookmark all the things I heard I can name a few theologians and even one you probably idolize that have pronounced it as such. James White/Robert Sungenis/William Webster have all pronounced it the same way. Anyhow..regardless of the fact..you might want to get MSN messenger we can communicate a lot better that way.
Nick:
No problem... I'll look into it... But if you come across those sources again, keep me in mind... I have never heard it pronounced that way... and I don't idolize any of the men you mentioned, thanks. But just for my understanding, how do you or any of those other men justify pronouncing the word 'poy-me-nah-oh'?
And excuse a typo in my second to last email... I said it was a 2nd person present indicative... I meant imperative.
Why don't you make a video response to my videos instead of running your mouth. Try the Papacy video.
Interestingly enough that is exactly the video I wrote my BLOG response to. I tried to inform him of this by posting responses to the video on YouTube but for whatever reason they would not post. I then tried again to post the link for it on this video (as well as the link for Moses' response) but it would not work. So finally I decided to email gnrhead and send him the links.
I will now reproduce our email dialogue…
Nick:
For some reason my responses are not being posted but here is what I said:
The response to your video from Prchdaword is available here: http://youtube.com/watch?v=XVuesQBEnHw No video responses from me due to the lack of a camera but I have dealt with your papacy video on my BLOG and for some reason my informing you of it didn't post either. Here is the address for that: http://rightly-dividing.blogspot.com/2007/04/papacy-defended.html
I'm all for debate, but if you're going to respond to me as you have done to others in your videos then don't bother. If you actually feel like supporting your assertions rather than name calling then I'm all for it.
Gnrhead:
I mispronounce it? In case you are not aware, I did not MISPRONOUNCE anything. I suggest you either learn Greek or be quiet. I will read the rest you wrote later on your blog only saw a bit of it..gotta go now. Will respond in a few hours
Nick:
Yes, you mispronounced it. But you have obviously fallen into the Strong's Greek Dictionary/Concordance trap (or perhaps some other lexicon, but I doubt it) that so many before you have. But even according to Strong's pronunciation scheme you got it wrong. The correct pronunciation is POY (rhymes with boy) - MY (as in oh MY God) - NO (as is NO you did not say it correctly). But again, you chose to mispronounce the lexical form of the word (i.e. the first person, present indicative; which is another problem that comes with relying on lexicons, they only give the lexical form) rather than the conjugated form of the verb 'poimaine' (POY-MY-neh; which is a second person, present indicative). The 'oi' and 'ai' are diphthongs, the 'oi' is pronounced as it is in the word 'oil' and the 'ai' is pronounced as it is in the word 'aisle'. This is basic stuff, so please learn it before capitalizing that you 'did not MISPRONOUNCE' anything and suggesting that I learn Greek.
Gnrhead:
And as far as pronouncing it..I just found 4 different scholars..listened to 8 clips of how others pronounce it and have heard YOUR variant of it as well as MY variant of it as well as several others. I guess we'll consult with the Early Greek Fathers to see which one of us is correct. I would love the references to all 4 scholars and 8 clips. And as far as I know, none of the early Greek fathers recorded their pronunciation for us to listen to, so at best we can read what they wrote and if we are going to follow the rules of Greek grammar then the diphthongs are going to be pronounced like they are in every other word that they appear in. But those references would be appreciated.
Nick:
I would love the references to all 4 scholars and 8 clips. And as far as I know, none of the early Greek fathers recorded their pronunciation for us to listen to, so at best we can read what they wrote and if we are going to follow the rules of Greek grammar then the diphthongs are going to be pronounced like they are in every other word that they appear in. But those references would be appreciated.
Gnrhead:
Sorry I didn't bookmark them..and I was joking about listening to the Greek Fathers pronunciations. As far as the correct pronunciation, I have heard many and many different variances on several different Greek words there is no SET list of orthodox way of pronouncing many given words in case you didn't know. But..even though I failed to bookmark all the things I heard I can name a few theologians and even one you probably idolize that have pronounced it as such. James White/Robert Sungenis/William Webster have all pronounced it the same way. Anyhow..regardless of the fact..you might want to get MSN messenger we can communicate a lot better that way.
Nick:
No problem... I'll look into it... But if you come across those sources again, keep me in mind... I have never heard it pronounced that way... and I don't idolize any of the men you mentioned, thanks. But just for my understanding, how do you or any of those other men justify pronouncing the word 'poy-me-nah-oh'?
And excuse a typo in my second to last email... I said it was a 2nd person present indicative... I meant imperative.
---------End of Emails---------
Now please don't misunderstand me... I think that Strong's Greek Dictionary is a great reference tool and it is the one that I began with as well, but it can only do so much for you. There comes a time when the serious student has to advance past the basics and move into some meatier stuff and it just seems as if gnrhead hasn't reached that point yet. Lord willing one day he will.
And for all who would like to hear it pronounced as it appears in lexicons click here.
